Comments on: CSS abstraction made simple with PHP http://www.position-absolute.com/news/css-abstraction-made-simple-with-php/ Get your web worker news fix Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:12:55 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Chris Eppstein http://www.position-absolute.com/news/css-abstraction-made-simple-with-php/comment-page-1/#comment-3160 Chris Eppstein Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:21:26 +0000 http://www.position-absolute.com/?p=1719#comment-3160 @cedric Point taken about caching. You really should check out CSScaffold. It is written in PHP and is very full featured. http://github.com/anthonyshort/csscaffold lesscss and sass are both written in ruby, neither requires you to have ruby on your production systems, just your dev and build systems and none require you to know how to write ruby code. Your machines probably have it installed already, and if they don't, it's easy to install. @cedric
Point taken about caching. You really should check out CSScaffold. It is written in PHP and is very full featured. http://github.com/anthonyshort/csscaffold

lesscss and sass are both written in ruby, neither requires you to have ruby on your production systems, just your dev and build systems and none require you to know how to write ruby code. Your machines probably have it installed already, and if they don’t, it’s easy to install.

]]> By: Cedric Dugas http://www.position-absolute.com/news/css-abstraction-made-simple-with-php/comment-page-1/#comment-3159 Cedric Dugas Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:35:32 +0000 http://www.position-absolute.com/?p=1719#comment-3159 @Chris serving CSS as php is not an issue if you are using a caching system for php files, which most server use. All imported css file should be converted in 1 one file anyway, lots of framework have an option for this, so this is a not really an issue, for me anyway As for sass and compass, I do not use ruby, most company I know do not use it (and by this I mean it is not really a popular framework in my city). Less css is another good option, still need to install software on the server. I still think there is a place for php in this, if well executed. But I agree that a full featured PHP abstraction would need a word of warning about how it is parsed on the server. @Chris serving CSS as php is not an issue if you are using a caching system for php files, which most server use.

All imported css file should be converted in 1 one file anyway, lots of framework have an option for this, so this is a not really an issue, for me anyway

As for sass and compass, I do not use ruby, most company I know do not use it (and by this I mean it is not really a popular framework in my city). Less css is another good option, still need to install software on the server. I still think there is a place for php in this, if well executed.

But I agree that a full featured PHP abstraction would need a word of warning about how it is parsed on the server.

]]> By: Chris Eppstein http://www.position-absolute.com/news/css-abstraction-made-simple-with-php/comment-page-1/#comment-3158 Chris Eppstein Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:20:07 +0000 http://www.position-absolute.com/?p=1719#comment-3158 @ehecatl What is not user friendly about sass and compass? @cedric There are performance reasons why serving php templated css that never changes per user is a bad thing to encourage (or not even warn people about). If you're looking for a more familiar syntax, you should check out http://lesscss.org/ It's true that you can achieve many of the abstraction benefits that my article points out with php, but dedicated css syntaxes like sass and less (and for php users: csscaffold) really up the level of expressiveness and maintainability of the stylesheets in lots of small ways that add up. @ehecatl What is not user friendly about sass and compass?

@cedric There are performance reasons why serving php templated css that never changes per user is a bad thing to encourage (or not even warn people about).

If you’re looking for a more familiar syntax, you should check out http://lesscss.org/

It’s true that you can achieve many of the abstraction benefits that my article points out with php, but dedicated css syntaxes like sass and less (and for php users: csscaffold) really up the level of expressiveness and maintainability of the stylesheets in lots of small ways that add up.

]]> By: Ehecatl Mendoza http://www.position-absolute.com/news/css-abstraction-made-simple-with-php/comment-page-1/#comment-3157 Ehecatl Mendoza Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:34:42 +0000 http://www.position-absolute.com/?p=1719#comment-3157 So simple and so useful! I know compass is already doing this, but its no easy to get started and understand by common designers. I really think that your approach will fit better on actual web design agencies workflow. Lets wait Sass and Compass evolve a little more until they are really user friendly. So simple and so useful!
I know compass is already doing this, but its no easy to get started and understand by common designers.
I really think that your approach will fit better on actual web design agencies workflow. Lets wait Sass and Compass evolve a little more until they are really user friendly.

]]> By: Cedric Dugas http://www.position-absolute.com/news/css-abstraction-made-simple-with-php/comment-page-1/#comment-3156 Cedric Dugas Thu, 01 Oct 2009 12:55:03 +0000 http://www.position-absolute.com/?p=1719#comment-3156 I completely understand your point, you are talking of taking CSS to a new level and this is really great but, Still I think abstraction trough php can have its place, it will certainly not be as powerful as mixins, because it do not understand the context of the whole selector. But it is a possible middle ground. Of course the bigger benefit is that this solution is ready to go, no installation needed on the server. I completely understand your point, you are talking of taking CSS to a new level and this is really great but,

Still I think abstraction trough php can have its place, it will certainly not be as powerful as mixins, because it do not understand the context of the whole selector. But it is a possible middle ground.

Of course the bigger benefit is that this solution is ready to go, no installation needed on the server.

]]> By: Chris Eppstein http://www.position-absolute.com/news/css-abstraction-made-simple-with-php/comment-page-1/#comment-3148 Chris Eppstein Thu, 01 Oct 2009 07:39:24 +0000 http://www.position-absolute.com/?p=1719#comment-3148 Someone asked on my blog why not just use ERB (the ruby equivalent of passing css thru php) instead of Sass to achieve the same result. Why introduce a whole new language? My reply applies here as well: http://chriseppstein.github.com/blog/2009/09/20/why-stylesheet-abstraction-matters/#comment-17898982 Additionally, I didn't demonstrate the full power of mixins in my original post, but you simply cannot achieve the same results using this kind of templating approach as you can with mixins, because mixins know the selector context they are being mixed into, this allows you to embed nested selectors into the calling context. Someone asked on my blog why not just use ERB (the ruby equivalent of passing css thru php) instead of Sass to achieve the same result. Why introduce a whole new language? My reply applies here as well:

http://chriseppstein.github.com/blog/2009/09/20/why-stylesheet-abstraction-matters/#comment-17898982

Additionally, I didn’t demonstrate the full power of mixins in my original post, but you simply cannot achieve the same results using this kind of templating approach as you can with mixins, because mixins know the selector context they are being mixed into, this allows you to embed nested selectors into the calling context.

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